My teenage son who proudly announced he had a girlfriend two weeks ago has already split up with her! She was one of the most exquisite creatures I have ever seen … apparently he has too much work to do! Yeah right. When has that ever stopped him doing the stuff he wanted to do. My daughter thinks it’s because having a girlfriend cramps his style.
When I acquired my first boyfriend at the scarily young age of 13, I went out with him for 4 years!! 13 – 17 – what a ridiculously long time to spend with one person. I don’t regret it though, we had a fantastic friendship and learnt everything together – it might however give some indication of just how crap I have been throughout my entire life of letting go of things.
This was pointed out to me yesterday after taking my friend’s advice and going to see my old counsellor. The one who didn’t really want to see me again after spending a lot of time easing me through the pain of divorce. I think she was terrified she’d never get rid of me again. This time, after our session she told me she didn’t think I should invest lots of money in coming to see her, that I should be able to work it all out for myself and anyway, she was moving very very soon. “No, she didn’t know where exactly”.
I have written down the key things she said. Not very much because she is just meant to “guide” rather than “advise”, but perhaps enough to think about for a minute. When I told her about why I felt I had to split up with Builder Bloke again and about the two hour meeting with my ex husband she had the same reaction as everybody else:- “of all the many divorced people I know, not one has to go and pick up a cheque”. When I said that I didn’t mind that much because I understood his anger at having to give me lots of his money she looked horrified. “You deserve that money. It’s what was agreed. If he’s angry it’s his issue – why do you feel the constant need to engage with him? You are divorced. Why can’t you let it all go?”.
I told her it was because I wanted to be friends again one day. That it was important for the children, as much as anything else and she said “but he didn’t like you when he was married to you. Why do think he would like you now?”
“What do you mean?” I asked.
“He had an affair remember, he can’t have liked you”.
It got me thinking about whether you can be friends after divorce. Perhaps it depends entirely on the reasons for the separation – but not everybody agrees with the above statement surely? Sometimes having an affair is about not liking yourself, or your situation or some other trigger….
Or is it?
September 15th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
I had an affair at the end of my first marriage. The reason the marriage ended was instigated by me and it was all about me. I still dearly loved my ex-husband. I was emotionally immature and stupid. I am now remarried and very happy BUT I still dearly love my first husband (like a brother) we talk regularly and I often call on him for help and advise and he responds. BUT I don't think he considers me a friend in the same way, I think I am the mother of his child. I would still like him to say "hey I love you then" or "hey you are my friend" or even " thanks for the memories" but he never will – so yes you can be friends after divorce, yes you can get on but don't expect miracles – it isn't going to happen and he cannot fix the broken part of you – but you can. PS I had 18 months 1-2-1 therapy and 2 years group therapy and that helped me to grow up!!!!!!!
September 15th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Your counsellor sound like an idiot – I agree with her on one thing though DONT waste anymore morney on her! Married people have affairs for all different reasons and actually by the sound of it, your ex is an idiot too. Maybe when he's finished with BB's ex, he could take up with your counsellor!! Of course he liked/loved you – he was just being a selfish-mid-life-crisis-kinda-guy – infact he sounds like he still is! Anyway – find that 'virtual' Hello World T shirt and put it on tomorrow morning – even with the leggings! I'm sure the 'friends after divorce' could be a reality – it will probably just take a little longer than you'd like!
September 15th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
I can understand wanting to be civil for the sake of the children IF he was a remotely nice person, but he doesn't sound like it. You wouldn't keep a nasty friend in your life so why bother with him unless you have to?
September 15th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
I think you can be civil for the sake of your children, but friends I would pass on that one. I'm sure he has his good points(?) but he comes across as being a self-centred jerk! Sorry I don't want to appear rude but that's the picture I am forming of Mr X. You deserve so much better, don't settle for second best. As for having to pick up your cheque……. better stop there before I get on my soap box. Keep smiling and lots of luck. Linda xoxo
September 15th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
I think it's actually healthier to cut the ties and live your own lives. I know you've got children and will always be connected, but why should you be connected in any way BUT the children?
I suppose the question really is, why do you feel the need to be his friend? Isn't your relationship with him over?
Time to move on, stop listening to him & giving him power. You might as well still be married if you allow him to continue to influence your life.
Sounds a bit harsh, sorry.
September 15th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
I constantly dwell on the same subject myself. I want everything to be amicable. And at the moment I would say my ex and I are friendly – but not friends. And there is a big difference. We have yet to tackle all the sensitive issues: money / parenting agreement / timetable for moving back to the UK. Plus of course the biggie of having other people in our lives.
I quite often feel that I don't want to push too hard on issues because I don't want to upset the status quo and cause friction. Unfortunately I don't he respects me for this. Quite the opposite in fact.
Yes he is amicable right now. Why wouldn't he be? I don;t think it is because he regards me fondly as a friend and still has love for me. I think it is because it allows him to get away with more without me upsetting the apple cart.
It's a tricky situation. Maybe you do just have to settle for acting friendly and with respect – but make sure you put respect for yourself and how he is treating you first. Maybe a new friendship will ultimately develop over time. Maybe it won't. Until then I personally don't think men are interesting in having friendships with women – even if they are the mothers of their children (whoa – huge generalisation there!) and particularly not those that they sense they can call all the shots on.
Not sure this is helpful. But I do feel for you. I feel the same confusion myself, but deep down think this is more a woman's angst than a mans and that it is probably better to just let those hopes and expectations go.
September 15th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
I'm with the counsellor on the cheque business. Lord, what a power play. And whilst he has you in a submissive position, he rants at you.
You don't have to be friends, just civil. Tell him about bank transfers. xx
September 15th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Coming back to the cheque thing – was nothing agreed when you reached a settlement on him getting the money to you
Would it help to think that he isn't really paying it to you, he's paying it via you to the children ?
Also echo what the counsellor said, your desire to be friends at some point in the future is beyond admirable BUT it doesn't take into account the person you are trying to do this with and their issues -for your sake it may be better to just walk away emotionally from him for a while
September 15th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
My parents spent an awfully long time trying to be friends after their divorce. I always thought it was such a waste of energy. I realise that they did it for us 'the kids', that they had so many great memories and its hard just to throw away that history. But I think as soon as they stopped trying to be friends, gave each other space to mourn the relationship (or whatever!), to get on with other things, they finally are friends again. Not best friends, but okay friends. And it. Took. Years.
September 16th, 2009 at 3:53 am
Hmmm. Your counsellor woman has only got one thing right. The business with the cheque. We've all told you to deal with that one and tolerate no bullshit from the man. You don't need to pay her good money to get that advice or guidance.
I think that she's wrong in stating that he had an affair because he didn't like you. That reduces human behaviour to such simple dimensions. Perhaps he had the affair because he was missing something in your relationship that he thought he could get elsewhere and didn't see the need / point to try to work at it in his marriage. That still didn't mean that he didn't like you. Clearly, when an affair becomes known and you go through a divorce, it's quite hard to like each other through that process.
I was desperately angry that my husband who had not contributed a brass farthing to the upkeep of the home for over 4 years was entitled to claim 50% of our joint assets in the divorce. I had used part of my inheritance to pay off debts that he had incurred and he still expected me to give him an additional sum in recognition of his lower earning potential (ha! bolleaux). Even writing about it puts up my blood pressure. But … we still had two children and we both loved them. And recognised that the other loved them as well. That was the starting point to building a friendship. I swallowed the bile and invited him to spend Christmas day with us just after the divorce. It was ok. He's spent every Christmas with us ever since. Last year, his father died and his family contacted me to break the news etc. When I was ill, he volunteered to shop and gave me dinner.
To be honest, I couldn't imagine us even speaking civilly before the divorce. Now we regard each other as friends. I now don't have to take any notice of his moaning and when I find myself being annoyed by him, I take a deep breath and remind myself that it's no longer my problem.
So, in answer to your question, yes, it is possible to be friends. If you don't have children, then it may make it easy to break the ties completely. But you will always be parents to your children and they didn't ask to be in the middle of any of this. I think that you can try to build an amicable relationship once you've sorted out the cheque, interaction with BB and BBs-ex and so on. Then you've got a baseline but you won't get past that baseline while there are still these things to sort out.
Mad x
September 16th, 2009 at 6:19 am
You can't just flip a switch and go from being in a relationship to being 'really good friends'. Emotions, history, ties don't work like that. And you can't force friendship either.
Stay civil for the children, love & live your own life. Then if, in the future you do become friends again, on a level playing field and without the games he's playing, great. And if not – it really doesn't matter!
September 16th, 2009 at 8:46 am
My first impression was – not a very nice counsellor.Of course there's so much more involved when it comes to affairs!
As a second wife, and stepmom, I can say that all of us adults being civil, and as friendly as possible really has meant a lot to the kids. At times it's been quite hard, and actually it's been a lot easier for me to be friends and communicate well with the kids' real mom, rather than my husband. 14 years of being part of this kind of family, and I'm still not sure what the 'right' thing is to do!
nb. the ex-wife has never had to come and get her money from us for the kids, or ever ask for it!! Bank transfers are wonderful things.
September 16th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
I had an affair because my husband didn't care for me any more. I (perhaps stupidly) that that one day we may be friends, for the childrens sake. But at the moment we can barely speak more than 2 words to each other!
The more I have thought about our relationship, the more I have realised we should have only been just friends in the first place, which initially is what I had intended.
Oh hum…….
September 16th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Ummm. I dont believe at all that an affair is always about the coupl, some people are just have affairs cos they want to…but I do agree that HE was probably unhappy..
I do tend also, and this may shock many, that I agree with the Jerry hall's Mothers …
that in the main, ….to keep a man, you must be a maid in the living room, a cook in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom. ….or as a friend? once told me a blow job a day keeps the mistress away!…
poor Jerry…it obviously didnt work for her!! She must have taken her finger of the er … pulse!!
I do feel that you are flogging a dead horse in trying to be friends with your ex…he made his choices…so screw him..or not obviously!
saz x
incorrectly posted comment earlier under the different jewellery co…I was signed into a friends blog that I am creating for her!!sorry.
September 18th, 2009 at 4:11 am
Bugger. Wrote a long & thoughtful comment, then somehow managed to obliterate it in one fell swoop.
What I think I said was: pay your (v.silly) counsellor no heed!! … men (and women) have affairs for a myriad of reasons but 'not liking' their partner is hardly ever one of them.
Re. friendship after divorce – Hmmmmmm.Without sounding like a complete cynic(and a manipulative, conniving bitch)- I believe in the philosphy of Chinese general and military strategist Sun Tzu (400BC or thereabouts) who was the first person to say: 'Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.' Not that my Ex (or yours) is The Enemy, per se… but… well, you know what I mean?
Don't aspire to friendship (too much room for disappointment) but rather an amicable working relationship that works for YOU. xx
September 21st, 2009 at 2:46 am
Actually I think I am the one person who agrees with the counsellor! I think there is a basic lack of respect involved in betraying your partner during an affair. Think you should avoid your ex as much as possible, particularly cut out the cheque thing, and let him come to you and try and be friends when all the dust has settled. You probably will end up friends – in about ten years' time! Sorry if this sounds really harsh but I hate to think of you wasting your time being nice to this man xx
September 21st, 2009 at 8:34 am
In fact Dulwich Divorcee, I think I agree with you -whether you like them or not I do believe that you have lost respect for your partner if you choose to betray them – not at all harsh and I think v helpful. Lx
June 29th, 2010 at 7:52 am
Great advice your talking about it so everyone else can know! Will use for sure. Also, took me a while to get it right, you have to bring about the place that first attracted you both and also prevent a ton of mistakes we all do at first if you want to help fix your marriage
July 13th, 2010 at 10:00 pm
Great text and nice blog.